International Women’s Day Spotlight on It’s a Continent Podcast: Challenging misconceptions and making African history accessible
History & Politics Editor Kaeshelle Rianne speaks with It’s a Continent Podcast about challenging the status quo and the importance of placing women’s histories in the spotlight.
With a touch of shade, satire and sauce, It’s a Continent Podcast shares rich and bountiful histories from each of the different nations, reminding people that Africa is not a country, it’s a continent. Co-hosts Astrid Madimba and Chinny Ukata, who celebrate their first anniversary this week, have already risen into the rankings as one of Spotify’s Top 25 History podcasts. Previous episodes have explored The Scramble for the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) to the Malagasy Uprising, and the hosts plan to leave no stone concealing the continent’s histories unturned.
What began as a passion project, blossomed into a vital resource for people to discover the histories that are kept out of the mainstream. Astrid, who was born in the Democratic Republic of Congo but raised in Devon, says ‘It’s been such a nice opportunity to learn ourselves, but also have those who listen and learn about the continent at the same time’’. Chinny, born in the North of England but moved to Southend in Essex with her family in the late 90s, wanted to ‘bring to light the stories we don't typically hear’ by looking beyond the Black history centred around American revolutionaries, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X.
Kaeshelle: Let’s start off light. What are you tired of hearing when it comes to decolonising history?
Chinny: I'm tired of the Berlin Conference — it’s not every day. We call it the coloniser bunfight because it reminds us of going to uni and picking which societies you wanted to join. That's pretty much what they did. The Europeans said, ‘Which countries do I want? What am I signing up for? Okay, a bit of Kenya.’ And it's unfortunate because it has shaped so much of history, so we do have to mention it. But I am tired of it — the audacity.
Astrid: For me, it's the process we go through once we gain independence. We often get a great leader who's showing signs of wanting to elevate the country, but for some reason, the power goes to their head. They’re like, ‘I’m going to keep this forever. This is mine and nobody else's”.’ It wasn't until actually the Tanzania episode that we did last week that we identified a leader in the continent who resigned and willingly stepped down. So all of that does get frustrating sometimes because some of them really could have let the power go.
Kaeshelle: You are history makers. You’re documenting histories, sharing your thoughts and key information about the African continent. What would you love to see more of in terms of history-making?
Astrid: Things similar to what we're doing, more history that tells our story. I want us to have that knowledge and be able to pass it on. In the West, it's very easy to find out about Henry VIII. It’s part and parcel of being in the education system. I would love for our stories to be embedded within our culture and for other people to know about all these characters because their stories are incredible. History is very much seen from one perspective; there’s the idea that African history is just focused on the slavery period and the fact that there were coups, so that’s how we’re seen, but there's so much more to it. In the 1900s, Wangari was looking at sustainability, but nobody talks about her.
Chinny: Can we now go a step further and start incorporating these stories into our curriculum? That would be amazing.
“I was optimistic during the whole black square summer when we started seeing petitions and people who never spoke about race before talking about it. There were those initial conversations about education and putting these topics into the curriculum.”
I think we're often distracted by the argument around pulling down the statue. And I didn't know anything about Colston, but then again, what he did within the continent was terrible. So it’s a big disservice because Black history is actually everyone's history. Everyone is involved. I think there's a duty of actually understanding what happened.
Chinny and Astrid, co-hosts of It’s a Continent Podcast
Kaeshelle: How difficult is it uncover stories unrelated to slavery or colonisation?
Chinny: You can always find an independence story, but the sources become sketchy when we’re looking for pre-colonial stories. Whereas if you look at Western European history around the same time periods, there's lots of information. For example, I was reading about how Queen Nzinga’s length of reign is comparable to Elizabeth I. And we know a lot about Elizabeth I. Her history is very well documented. But for Nzinga, you're looking at sources with question marks around the dates. Why isn’t it documented properly?
Kaeshelle: What did you enjoy most about researching the episode on Wangari Maathai?
Astrid: For me, it was learning about her determination and grit. She was on her own island, nobody was engaging with her, friends turned away, and she and her husband had divorced. She could have easily wanted to be back within the community, but she actually took a stand and fought against the president at the time, which was quite big. She was very bold, and I absolutely love that.
“Especially at a time where women weren’t seen in that kind of regard, seeing her push through, realise she had a voice and wanted to make a difference was something I absolutely had to highlight.”
It's crazy how much she was able to achieve, winning a Nobel Peace Prize. I also found the period in which she was born interesting. She experienced both her culture as it was — before colonialism — and what the British brought. She could have easily embraced British culture in Kenya, including Christianity, but she took a step back and held on to her culture rooted in taking care of the environment. She maintained those core values, bringing in the green belt movement.
Chinny: It definitely highlighted that Black people are also behind the environmental movement. I think there's been a lot of whitewashing in that regard. Last year, Vanessa Nakate, a Ugandan climate activist, was cropped out of an image with some other white environmentalists. But this movement has been going on before these guys were born, and Black women were behind it.
Kaeshelle: Is it difficult to find information about women's stories, and do you feel like you need to make an effort to create a gender balance on your podcast?
Astrid: I do try to bring in women’s stories because they tend to get a little bit lost. One of the ways we've also tried to do this and also talk about what’s currently happening in the continent has been through the African pride segment of the podcast. We highlight incredible people who are currently making a difference. It is a struggle to find content that is specifically focused on women, but we do try to make a conscious effort, knowing that there must have been a woman somewhere and highlighting her role. That’s really important.
Chinny: There were many women involved in independence movements, even though their stories are relegated to the background. For instance, Kwame Nkrumah is very well known, but there were women, also funding the movement. As Astrid said, we have our African pride segment, where we can especially highlight women and show what African people are doing within the continent for their country, region or the world.
Kaeshelle: The theme for International Women's Day this year is about choosing to challenge, so why is it important for you to challenge the status quo by decolonising history with your podcast?
Chinny: Decolonising history is not just about African history but also looking at what happened with indigenous peoples around the world, what happened in India or Haiti. These stories can't be hidden from everyone. If people were well-educated on history, do we think that things like Brexit would have been able to happen?
“Would people be asking why there are so many people from other countries in this country if they understood the concept of empire?”
There was a survey recently, which said that there was still a significant amount of people who wanted the Empire back. Would society be as divisive as it was if people kind of knew the backstory? Education is such an important tool, but unfortunately, it is stifled.
Astrid: For me, especially during the DRC episode, it was important to learn about where I came from, so having that understanding and conviction when it comes to my history. Living in the UK, we're raised to have this mashup of an identity. Future generations will also have this split, so when I eventually have children, I’d want them to know about both countries they identify with. Sadly, I will never know the story of my great grandparents, but I still get to have that connection to the continent through recognising its history. And there's another thing; unless you're doing the work yourself, you won’t find many stories about women, you will get a single view. So with our podcast, sharing this information and having it in one place is a really important step forward. We need to have these stories told to keep them going.
In recent years, we have heard a lot of noise about the need to diversify reading lists, disrupt the canon and decolonise history, but the actions towards material change remain scarce. And yet, Chinny and Astrid are shaking up the global narratives that have for too long turned a blind eye to the continent. Through their work on the podcast, they are carving out space in the digital archives for African histories for now and years to come. Support It’s a Continent Podcast by listening, sharing what you learn and doing research to contribute to the ongoing conversations.
This interview is part of Onyx Magazine’s series for International Women’s Day 2021, view other features here: